I say bravo to those who have worked hard to achieve this progress. Cincinnati has created positive momentum in recent years, and I think this project might be the tipping point (at least for Over-the-Rhine). I am confident in its success and only hoping for it to grow in the future (more streetcar lines, light rail, commuter rail, etc.) To all you suburbanites: First, get out of our business. We asked for your help with 2002's MetroMoves campaign and you gave us the finger. Now we are going alone. Second, many of you don't seem to get it. Some people like living in cities and riding public transportation because it's not so boring.
John Hoebbel, Northside
First, you dolt, many suburbanites pay city income tax, they should have every right to say how that money's spent.
Second, this is a city that had no money to fund it's public pools last year... Stan Chesley came up with the money so they could open. Does this seem like a frill or a necessity when compared to city pools?
Third, if public transportation was so damn successful in the city, why is it subsidized? In fact, if you ever drive by a Metro bus during non rush hour times you'd be lucky to see three people in one.
Fourth, let's truly examine how this street car is supposed to operate. People are supposed to pay to park at downtown, OTR or uptown, then they pay to take the street car from one of those places to another place and then pay to take the street car back to where you parked.
Doesn't that sound kind of ridiculous? I mean how many people actually have business to do downtown and either OTR or the university?
The fact is, if people do have business in one or both of these areas; they'll drive.
Let me also give this douche bag another lesson in urban government. Did you ever hear of the Cincinnati subway?
How about Fountain Square West? where the city bought a totally functioning department store out only to spend millions and take fifteen years to turn it into, wow, another department store.
Let's look at the another promise in urban development, the Underground Freedom Center.
John, if city life is so damn wonderful, why are people leaving in droves? The city population has dropped from 1 million to 350,000 in forty years. I guess, only you urban snobs can see the beauty of a woman being shot in cold blood with lots of witnesses yet no one seems to be able to tell the police who did it.
I will give you, life in the city is not boring. It was never boring to me when my window was bashed in three times in a three year period. I just couldn't take all that excitement anymore.
12 comments:
With any great endevor comes a risk and I think this one is worth it. I also think it's about time Cincinnati started seeing the forest instead of eating the bark. I think you'll be greatful if the Streetcar goes in, releases the stranglehold on urban lending financial institutions currently have, by offering permanent proven infrastructure (streetcar tracks and ontime dntwn circulation) to lend on which will increase private development (housing and commercial)while at the same time solving one of the very difficult problems urban housing faces which is parking in this car driven world. I believe it offers a solution to the main problem which is not enough people and therefore no TAX base, and repopulates a mostly vacant OTR, thus boosting the tax base for self sufficiency. At that point smaller more insignificant luxuries for communities like pools will not pose a financial burden. If you run a business do you pay out bonuses if you have no clients filling your bankroll, I don't think so. Lets help get this downtown community creating income again. I'd suggest taking a look at a book called "The Geography of Nowhere" by Howard Kunstler that documents how our country got to where we are today with strip mall mania, the decline of the urban city, and non-designed suburbs relative to transportation and the "american dream" and government intervention. It also tries to explain what the important characteristics of successful urban environments are. By no means do I think the Streetcar is the savior for OTR, but I do feel it is a proactive approach to a long term solution of repopulating a blighted downtown city center.
The vicious cycle we have in this country is that politicians get elected and then deem to spend money where none should be spent and then raise taxes to pay for the waste; people grow tired of high taxes and poor services and move away and create new cities, which in turn a new group of politicians come to life and then deem to spend money where none should be spent and then raise taxes; which causes people then again move.
In the wake of all of this are rusting cities which the left behind. And for some reason the people and politicians that remain behind think the state and federal government should pay to fix their problem. The cycle is maddening and seemingly endless. The only hope for our cities is not some stupid Mr. Rogers trolley cars, aka. San Francisco delight, but to dramatically cut the wasteful spending practices, reduce the huge city governments, and reduce out of control taxes; then, and only then, will you see people and businesses move back into these areas.
To anonymous above. Like a true "progressive" you never answered one damn issue I addressed in my post.
You like the ring of the trolley car and it looks so cool on a box of Rice a Roni so let's spend 150 million to get it done.
How is it that Blue Ash, Mason, West Chester or Florence doesn't need one of these damn gimmick to get business and residents into their cities.
Once again, I'm not the smartest guy in the room but I watch what the smart guys are doing, and in this case, they're not spending $150 million on some lame ass trolley system. There using it on infrastructure that people will use.
To Brian... you get it.
First of all, your blog sucks. Second, you should really consider proof reading your posts before publishing them. I read two paragraphs of this post and instantly realized I had nothing to worry about because you made it perfectly clear that you were a moron without an education. Simple grammar seems to be something you never truly understood. Thankfully the people who are actually running this city are required to go through years of schooling before being allowed to make decisions for us. You, on the other hand, need to get a clue.
The streetcars are coming.
Now, my friend, you sound like a true liberal. When asked to make the business case for spending money, you blow it off. Instead, you insult the questioner. Then to top it off at the end you basically say, screw everyone, we're doing it.
I know how this will turn out though:
http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html
I've never proclaimed to be an English major and I'll admit that often, while ranting, I think faster than I type.
But I'll match my acumen against Laketa Cole, John Cranley et al. any day. They make me look like a mental giant.
Once again, It's your attitude that has cities with all these impressive amenities and homicidal and homeless citizens to enjoy them.
And... as the commenter before, you have yet to refute one issue I brought up.
One night, long ago, the Water Dept. left the opening to the subway open. My friends and I spent all night exploring it.
The Liberty St. Station was really impressive. It was the place where City Council was to go in case of nuclear attack. (damn the rest of us)
They put a water main in the subway after spending millions,(in pre-WWII dollars) on it
I wonder what the trolley cars will be used for after it is determined to be a cost/benefit disaster.
We'll be able to use the cars for ice cream trucks some day.
I'm sure that thieves will steal the rails for scrap metal just like they're doing now with manhole covers.
Hi Gordon,
Haha, this was a real treat to find this blog post.
Where do you live out of curiosity?
It seems like you welcome discourse on this blog and prefer direct rebuttals. (I agree with you on that for sure.)
I'll give it a try ...
1. I disagree, I don't think you should have a 'say' just because you pay income tax. Should a visitor from Germany have a say in where his sales tax money goes? Of course you have your right to voice your opinion... I'm just a little tired of people from the suburbs freaking out about the streetcar, when they have no 'say' in electing the people who are making this happen.
2. The city HAS money for the Cincinnati Recreation Commission, although certainly not enough and Chesley was kind enough to donate money to keep some pools open later in the summer. The whole idea is to attract more people back to Cincinnati and build the tax base and be able to fund a full summer pool season.
Agreed, the city had been losing residents until very recently. But, you are wrong, Cincinnati never had 1 Million residents ... it topped off at about 500,000 in the 1950's. (look it up) BUT ... we should take bets on whether or not the city will lose or gain population between the 2000 and 2010 census. I've got money on a gain. (hence the positive momentum comment)
3. Sure, public transportation is subsidized ... almost every system in every city is subsidized. But so is driving. City streets aren't maintained, cleared of snow, etc. through gas tax (user tax).
4. You aren't very in tune with people who live in the city. It will open up downtown for many students at UC, it will open up OTR for visitors staying in Downtown, etc.
5. of course I know of the Cincinnati Subway. Do you know the history of it and why the money ran out? This could be an entirely different argument right here. Fountain Square West was a proposed skyscraper... Besides, I could come up with a million failed or unrealized projects everywhere, including the suburbs.
Anyway, I agree, I think it's coming. I don't think either of us are going to convince each other, so I guess only time will tell if the project is a success.
-john
Let me say that first I'm not a city hater.
I've posted my city life resume before and it includes 14 years as a member of community councils, invest in neighborhoods, etc.
I've lived in Pleasant Ridge, Madisonville, Corryville and Oakley. Trust me, I never would have moved to the burbs if it was not closer to my business.
I respect your opinions and you are correct about the population. I must have been reciting Hamilton county population.
None the less, I get a little sick of the urban snobery that prevails with many city dwellers.
If city life is so wonderful, why are the people with wealth, jobs, kids, etc, leaving in droves?
After all, those are the votes that ultimately count.
I believe it's partly because of inept governance and waste of city resources.
Maybe you can offer a counter point.
Well, I think there are a lot of reasons why people moved to the suburbs.
I think the big wave (post ww2) happened for a couple of well documented reasons:
cheap federal home loans encouraged new construction, new highway system allowed access to the periphery, a bit of racism, more people in general (baby boom), 60's riots, etc.
The flight of the middle class caused school performance to drop, crime to increase, vacancies, etc. and all of these problems have been snowballing for decades. I think it's a misconception that the struggles of the city are self-inflicted.
(I know I sound like a textbook, but you asked.)
What you think of as urban snobbery is probably just a defense mechanism of people who have become the minority over the past 40 years and are tired of wealth and jobs leaving their communities. I think that urbanites genuinely value the city lifestyle. (walkability, diversity, community, arts, spontaneity, not having to drive everywhere.)
Finally, I don't think people are leaving in droves. I think your comments would have been more relevant about five years ago. Look at the numbers (Cincinnati is slowly gaining residents according to census estimates) Have you been downtown on a weekend night recently? It is poppin. And I only think this trend is going to accelerate as gas prices rise, suburban homes are foreclosed on, sustainability becomes more serious and less a trend, and suburban kids get sick of 'generica'.
I'm sure you've heard this stuff before (generic city arguement ... haha.)
What sort of solutions would you propose? What are some other examples of wasted city resources?
-john, northside
John
I appreciate your comments. Please see my current post on this issue.
I'd like to get other readers on the subject.
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